【FMYX】wwfan关于FM09取消拉线的说明

涅磐重生

原帖地址：http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=50799
这张帖主要是关于FM09取消拉线的讨论的，其中不乏一些有用的信息，可以帮助我们理解拉线和跑位的关系。在大名鼎鼎wwfan的眼中，取消拉线是一次革命性的进步。下面就让我们听听他是怎么说的。

原文：

When we originally had the debate about the removal of arrows in FML testing, the only criteria we used were the integrity of the ME and the look of the football. Prior to the test removal, there were a huge number of disagreements about whether they should stay or go, both within SI and the FML forums. Even the tactical mods didn't at first agree, with Rashidi being openly vocal about the need for them to stay whereas I was equally insistent that they should go. That Rashidi and many others didn't just change their mind but came to recognise the FML ME as a major evolution in the development of the engine and became major proponents and defenders of the change should quash many fears.

The accusations of laziness are also unfounded. FML enabled SI to simultaneously test user feedback from GWs with and without the arrowless ME. The feedback from the arrowless GWs was so good compared to the arrowed ones that it swung the balance of opinion heavily towards the arrowless option. Scorelines came down as people could finally defend and the football looked realistic. PaulC has repeatedly stated his vision for the ME is for it to produce as realistic simulation of real life football as possible. Based on extensive feedback from SI employees, mods and general users, plus his own playing experience, he decided to take the arrows out of the game. At no point was it ever a lazy option.

What will happen when the arrowless ME hits FM09? People are going to have to learn to design tactics that work from the ground up. Tactical success is no longer going to be about drawing a plethora of arrows until you find a system the AI can't cope with. In FM08, a quick look at the tactical forum and the Tactical Cup run by the OP and the team at FMFan.ru, illustrates vividly how the majority of people are playing FM. They design multi-arrowed exploitative tactics that rely on artificial holes in the ME to unfairly outwit the AI. As one previous poster put it, it would be like playing a driving game in which your car had a 7-speed gear box whereas the AI only had a 3-speed one. Yes, you'd win, but only because the AI isn't on a level playing field. No fun in that.

For a lot of users, the learning curve is going to be steep and there will be many, many false steps along the way. However, once they scale its peaks, they will suddenly see the ME for what it is, a brilliant piece of programming capable of producing an exceptional simulation of football reality. You can already see this in FM08, which looks a far better engine without user arrows and is, for me, the biggest argument for their removal.

The final point in the defence of the end of arrows is that FWRs (often to none) have been reworked to take their place. You haven't suddenly lost the ability to have your FB overlap and put in a cross from the byline or have your MC drift between the FCs to score. What you have lost is the ability to have them move into that position no matter what. Players will only make FWRs when they are on, not by default, which adds much dynamism to the football. The better the player, the better his runs. This means that the super AMC of old (farrowed to FC) will only be as effective if the player himself is excellent. A world-class AMC will still be hugely effective. An average one, however, will no longer be able to look great simply because he is moving into a hole the AI can't defend.

译文：
在最初的关于FML中取消拉线的争论中，我们批评的最多的就是ME的完整性和取消拉线游戏的观赏性。在测试之前，SI和FML的论坛里关于拉线是否应该取消也产生了广大的争议。即便战术模板一开始也未达到一致的同意，并且Rashidi也公开的表示了他支持拉线的存在，我却同样坚持应该取消拉线。但Rashidi和其他许多人并未改变主意，反倒把FML ME视为游戏引擎发展的一个重大进步，并且成为了这个可以平息很多担心的变革的主要拥护者。

关于倦怠的指责同样也是毫无根据的。不论ME，FML是否有拉线，都能够使SI同时测试玩家关于GWs的反馈。从没有拉线的GWs中获取的反馈能同那些有拉线的反馈进行很好的比较，从而使我们更倾向于取消拉线。游戏的比分也不再那么高了，可能玩家最终会反对，但是却把足球比赛表现的更为真实。Paul C一再表明他的观点：ME是为了尽可能真实地模拟现实足球。基于SI雇员和普通玩家的广泛反馈，以及他自己的游戏经验，他决定取消游戏中的拉线。这决不是一个懒惰倦怠的决定。

当没有拉线箭头的ME出现在FM09中会出现什么情况？玩家必须学着去设计一些相应的战术。战术成功不再是做出一些花哨的拉线，直到你设计出一个阵型是AI难以抵挡的。在FM08中，你可以求助于战术论坛，OP举办的战术杯赛，以及FMFAN团队，这也形象的刻画了大部分的玩家是如何在玩FM的。这些设计一些纷繁复杂的拉线战术的人，他们是依靠ME中的一些人为漏洞来不公平的击败AI的。就像此前的一个宣传画中所说的，这些人玩FM就如同玩赛车游戏，他们开着的是由7档变速箱的车，而AI的车却只有3档的变速。是的，这样做你确实可以赢得比赛，但那仅仅是作弊使你显得比AI高明很多。这样的玩法毫无乐趣。

对很多玩家来说，学习FM的过程并非一帆风顺的，沿途也许走了很多很多的弯路。然而，一旦他们领悟到了游戏的精髓，他们会猛然发现，ME是一个高明的程序，可以把现实足球模拟的如此逼真。从FM08中你就可以发现，缺少了拉线，游戏引擎反而显得更为出色，这也是我强烈要求去除拉线的原因。

关于支持取消拉线的最后一点理由，是向前的拉线和球员前插重复了。通常，你都会让你的边后卫压上进行45°斜传，让你的中场压上试图得分。你所失去的能力是让你的球员准确的移动到指定的位置，不管是什么位置。球员在场上只会进行前插，从而使得游戏中的足球看起来动力十足，这并不是默认的。能力越强的球员，跑位就越好。这就意味着前要们只有在自身能力十分出色时才会踢得高效。一个世界级的前腰依旧效率惊人，然而一个普通的前腰，却显得不那么好用，这仅仅只是因为他的跑位比那些超级前腰差，电脑更容易防守而已。

涅磐重生

wwfan关于拉线和球员跑位的一些解释（这一部分是我根据他的多张回帖整理出来的。）

原文：

How can arrows work in conjunction with runs? Are they not the same thing? If so, then the arrows and runs instructions needs to be one and the same, which they now are. It is illogical to have both.

The arrows were never intended to represent runs and perceiving them in that manner is where the confusion lies. They were illogical because they determined two points for the player to take up from which he then makes his defensive or attacking runs. The movement between the two points was never part of the runs calculation. Turning arrows into runs, which is what has happened, clears this up.

As for backwards runs, an MC with no FWRs and a lowish mentality will drop into the defensive hole when the team loses possession. He no longer needs to be told to become a DMC. He will do it naturally until the rest of the team is in position to cover the attack.

As with real life, a wrong footed winger is likely to cut in much more often. A correct footed winger will more likely stay wider, but can be forced into drifting inside with the right instructions. Personally, I have found wingplay to have become much more effective without arrows, as long as the tactical instructions suit the player.

You are repeating the same argument, that arrows aid tactical control. They don't. They reduce it as players are forced to shuffle between two points with no relation to what is happening on the pitch. It disrupts an overall tactical vision.

What will happen in the arrowless ME is that players will react to on pitch situations and choose to make runs into space when they are on. If you are looking to open space in the final third and have no wingers, a wide formation will encourage the MC to drift to the wings when the ball is on his side of the pitch. Adding other instructions, such as look for the crossing opportunity, will increase his chances of doing this. What he will not do is move to the left flank when the ball is on the right as a matter of course, which is what he would do if arrowed. He will instead tuck in and support the attacking move from a more central position. If you decided you want the MCs to stay central in attacking plays, you would reduce their crossing and CF, and use the FB to patrol the flanks.

译文：
那么拉线是怎么与跑位联系起来的呢？它们不是同一个东西吗？如果是的话，拉线和跑位的解释就会是一模一样的。其实两者是存在逻辑关系的。

拉线绝不是代表了球员的跑位，那样的理解导致了我们对于这个概念的混乱。他们之间存在着逻辑关系。拉线决定了球员需要占据的两点，而这两点决定了球员在防守和进攻时如何跑动。球员在两点间的跑动从来都不在跑位的计算范围之内。把拉线当成跑位引起了我们的混乱，这点我们需要搞清楚。

就如同向后的跑位吧，一个低前插和低心态的中场队员，当球队不在控球的时候会进入防守状态。他并不需要设定为后腰。除非是整个队伍由守转攻的时候，否则他都会自觉的进行防守。

就像现实中一样，弱势脚的边锋会更多的进行内切。非弱势脚的边锋会更多的留在两翼，除非战术需要时他们会进行内切。个人而言，我发现边锋在没有拉线的时候会表现的更加出色，就好像球员十分适应我的战术一样。

很多玩家依然坚持认为拉线表示了对整个战术的控制。其实不然。球员在人为设置的两点间进行移动和整个球场上发生着什么毫不相干。拉线的存在破坏了整体战术的布局。

在取消拉线后的ME中，球员会对球场上的情况做出反应并且选择做出跑位。如果你在最后三十分钟想要善用两翼但是你的阵型中却没有边锋时，一个更宽的阵型会使得你的中场在有球时主动扯到两翼。其他情况，比如有传中机会时，中场球员也会更多的选择传中。无需多言的是，当球在右侧时，他不会将球转移到左侧去，但是这样的情况会在有拉线的ME中发生，球员会更多的出现在中路位置。如果你想要你的中场队员们更多的在中路发起进攻，你只需要减少他们的传中，并让边后卫压上两翼。

Tottiseiya

捏捏果然翻译好了！捏一个！

这个解释得更清楚了……

znzn1985

真有意思 看来09会是革命性的一代  Demo快点来吧 等不及了

mcdogbark

无拉线,我的边路狂攻战术岂不是没有用了
以后还是要买助攻型边后卫好啊

szxiong

要习惯无拉线的日子了

cyc703

现在就开始习惯下无拉线的战术
试用下效果如何了

speed0811

果然取消拉线了，看来09的革命性比CM4的还要大。

dingjiany

我本来就不太用拉线的。。。。。。。。09貌似很革命啊。。。。。。。。

sampcl

这个解释得更清楚了……

wwmanutd

不公平的击败AI。。。
靠~~~~~

去日留痕

来支持一下涅涅～～～～～～～～～

chopperman

这下强弱更加分明了                  

平平平平

LS的令我好晕啊。。。2050年，你还不退休啊？

不过以于FM来说，或者他们还真没想到。

xty830415

想更真实？那为什么国米对中的人都那么无敌？

去日留痕

原帖由 xty830415 于 2008-10-20 17:14 发表
想更真实？那为什么国米对中的人都那么无敌？

这又是在冲哪里开炮？

dlttft

原帖由 xty830415 于 2008-10-20 17:14 发表
想更真实？那为什么国米对中的人都那么无敌？

其实 这个问题我一直想问的

lying506

09没拉线了。。。。。
看来还是拿08设计一个没拉线的阵型来适应一下比较好

xiaorui0428

`居然说咱们用不公平的方法击败AI~` `

涅磐重生

消失了一个星期的人回来了，正在下载那个传说中有问题的DEMO版本。。。